Comments on: No Safe Harbor is great for consumers’ mindset http://www.workathometruth.com/blog/2009/10/13/no-safe-harbor-is-great-for-consumers-mindset/ Tue, 14 Feb 2012 05:06:16 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: michael webster http://www.workathometruth.com/blog/2009/10/13/no-safe-harbor-is-great-for-consumers-mindset/comment-page-1/#comment-14996 michael webster Tue, 02 Mar 2010 02:58:03 +0000 http://www.workathometruth.com/blog/?p=3525#comment-14996 Paul, thanks for continuing to think about and post on this topic. The FTC and State AG's do their biz op round ups about every 3 years, and look for easy targets. Testimonials that are not properly backed up with data are going to be easy targets, and once the new biz op rule is passed by the FTC, the big affiliate marketeers are going to get whacked because it will be an easy case, and there will be a recovery and lesson to the marketplace. Paul, thanks for continuing to think about and post on this topic.
The FTC and State AG’s do their biz op round ups about every 3 years, and look for easy targets.
Testimonials that are not properly backed up with data are going to be easy targets, and once the new biz op rule is passed by the FTC, the big affiliate marketeers are going to get whacked because it will be an easy case, and there will be a recovery and lesson to the marketplace.

]]> By: Paul (Founder, WorkAtHomeTruth) http://www.workathometruth.com/blog/2009/10/13/no-safe-harbor-is-great-for-consumers-mindset/comment-page-1/#comment-14977 Paul (Founder, WorkAtHomeTruth) Sun, 28 Feb 2010 19:19:50 +0000 http://www.workathometruth.com/blog/?p=3525#comment-14977 @<a href="#comment-14953">Dan Thies</a>: Here's something I posted over at Michael's blog that might be surprising for a lot of people: "I just read the Washington Specific information here: http://www.dfi.wa.gov/sd/publications/business_opportunity/what_is_a_business_opportunity.htm And is seems alarmingly clear that if the other States are similar that there are likely a lot of coaching programs violating business opportunity filing requirements and laws as you've pointed out. I think most of us - including myself - have been under the impression that the seller of a business opportunity had to also provide the actual product or service that the buyer would end up selling. But clearly that is NOT what this phrase is saying: "or any product marketed by the user of the product, equipment, supplies, or services sold or leased or offered for sale or lease to the purchaser by the seller" So I take that to mean that even if *I* find the product or service to sell as the buyer but am relying up a system or training bought from someone else that has a price-point above a certain dollar threshold - it doesn't matter if the seller of the business opportunity has any control over what I ultimately sell. Amazing. Thank you for explaining this Michael. I'm sure this is going to lead to some interesting discussions." Of course, realistically the FTC and State AGs are really only going to be concerned about very specific types of training programs no matter what legal definitions might say. It seems like in some cases it gets down to what the definition of a "Marketing Plan" is. For example the California definition: http://ag.ca.gov/consumers/general/samp.php was the one used in Michael Webster's write-up here: <a href="http://bizop.ca/blog2/adsense-and-fraud/blogmastermind-testimonials-an.html">Blog MasterMind Testimonials</a>. @Dan Thies: Here’s something I posted over at Michael’s blog that might be surprising for a lot of people:

“I just read the Washington Specific information here:
http://www.dfi.wa.gov/sd/publications/business_opportunity/what_is_a_business_opportunity.htm

And is seems alarmingly clear that if the other States are similar that there are likely a lot of coaching programs violating business opportunity filing requirements and laws as you’ve pointed out.

I think most of us – including myself – have been under the impression that the seller of a business opportunity had to also provide the actual product or service that the buyer would end up selling.

But clearly that is NOT what this phrase is saying:
“or any product marketed by the user of the product, equipment, supplies, or services sold or leased or offered for sale or lease to the purchaser by the seller”

So I take that to mean that even if *I* find the product or service to sell as the buyer but am relying up a system or training bought from someone else that has a price-point above a certain dollar threshold – it doesn’t matter if the seller of the business opportunity has any control over what I ultimately sell.

Amazing. Thank you for explaining this Michael. I’m sure this is going to lead to some interesting discussions.”

Of course, realistically the FTC and State AGs are really only going to be concerned about very specific types of training programs no matter what legal definitions might say.

It seems like in some cases it gets down to what the definition of a “Marketing Plan” is. For example the California definition:
http://ag.ca.gov/consumers/general/samp.php

was the one used in Michael Webster’s write-up here:

Blog MasterMind Testimonials.

]]> By: Paul (Founder, WorkAtHomeTruth) http://www.workathometruth.com/blog/2009/10/13/no-safe-harbor-is-great-for-consumers-mindset/comment-page-1/#comment-14954 Paul (Founder, WorkAtHomeTruth) Fri, 26 Feb 2010 04:38:01 +0000 http://www.workathometruth.com/blog/?p=3525#comment-14954 @<a href="#comment-14953">Dan Thies</a>: Thanks, Dan. I have to admit that I've been surprised when reading some of the state business opportunity regulations what they actually consider business opportunities. At least a few of them are MUCH different than I thought. @Dan Thies: Thanks, Dan. I have to admit that I’ve been surprised when reading some of the state business opportunity regulations what they actually consider business opportunities.

At least a few of them are MUCH different than I thought.

]]> By: Dan Thies http://www.workathometruth.com/blog/2009/10/13/no-safe-harbor-is-great-for-consumers-mindset/comment-page-1/#comment-14953 Dan Thies Fri, 26 Feb 2010 04:23:30 +0000 http://www.workathometruth.com/blog/?p=3525#comment-14953 @<a href="#comment-12830">Paul (Founder, WorkAtHomeTruth)</a>: Paul, just came across this - and can't imagine how anything Michael refers to would apply to our training program. Just because some people earn a living as plumbers, teaching people how to fix a toilet is not the same thing as offering a business opportunity. ;-) There are training programs out there in the search marketing space (Bruce Clay's "SEO Toolset Certification" @ http://www.seotoolset.com/certification/ as an example) that may be dancing around a little close to the franchise laws. There are no doubt a lot of people in the "Internet Marketing" space who are standing somewhere on a slippery slope, in terms of "business opportunities" as well. @Paul (Founder, WorkAtHomeTruth):
Paul, just came across this – and can’t imagine how anything Michael refers to would apply to our training program. Just because some people earn a living as plumbers, teaching people how to fix a toilet is not the same thing as offering a business opportunity. ;-)

There are training programs out there in the search marketing space (Bruce Clay’s “SEO Toolset Certification” @ http://www.seotoolset.com/certification/ as an example) that may be dancing around a little close to the franchise laws.

There are no doubt a lot of people in the “Internet Marketing” space who are standing somewhere on a slippery slope, in terms of “business opportunities” as well.

]]> By: Paul (Founder, WorkAtHomeTruth) http://www.workathometruth.com/blog/2009/10/13/no-safe-harbor-is-great-for-consumers-mindset/comment-page-1/#comment-12921 Paul (Founder, WorkAtHomeTruth) Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:22:16 +0000 http://www.workathometruth.com/blog/?p=3525#comment-12921 Ah terrific. I was hoping you might do a write-up like that. Heading to read it now. Ah terrific. I was hoping you might do a write-up like that. Heading to read it now.

]]>